Eight years in the past, I sat down in a Trenton workplace constructing with the person who was about to turn into the subsequent New Jersey governor: an brazenly liberal, dad-joke-spouting, onetime aspiring musical theater actor from Massachusetts turned rich Wall Avenue govt and diplomat named Phil Murphy.
It was January 2018, just a few days earlier than the 60-year-old Democrat can be sworn in because the Backyard State’s 56th governor. I used to be there to interview him about his vision for the state.
Tall and lanky with short-cropped salt-and-pepper hair, Murphy wore Allbird sneakers on the backside of his darkish go well with and tie. And this was clear from the get-go: He was decided to be the anti-Chris Christie. The place his brash Republican predecessor reveled in controversy, the extra gentle Murphy usually took pains to keep away from it. He’s recognized to say he‘s “mad as heck” or doesn’t have “colour so as to add” about sensitive subjects.
Greater than something, Murphy — who had by no means held elected workplace earlier than however was as soon as U.S. ambassador to Germany — referred to as himself a “proud progressive” who wished to maneuver the state leftward. He vowed to legalize marijuana and tax millionaires however “develop” the financial system. He promised stronger gun legal guidelines, extra wind energy, and to show New Jersey into “the California of the East Coast,” particularly when it got here to offshore wind energy.
Precisely 2,916 days later, I sat down with Murphy once more, this time at his workplace within the Statehouse as he prepares to depart Jan. 20 after the 2 consecutive phrases restricted by the state Structure. He’ll be succeeded by former congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, who easily won final yr’s election, making certain Democrats will hold the governor’s seat for a 3rd straight time period — one thing no occasion had executed in Jersey since 1961.
My first query was a throwback: So is Jersey now the California of the East Coast?
“After which some,” Murphy mentioned at first of the hour-long dialog, pointing to how the state has turn into a new center for film and television studios and gained a foothold in artificial intelligence — although conceding he’s ticked off that his push for wind vitality sputtered.
Murphy is leaving workplace with current approval numbers within the excessive 30s to excessive 40s, remarkably much like the ratings he got shortly after taking workplace. However he declined to provide his governorship a letter grade. Nor did he choose a proudest achievement.
“I feel it’s a bit of bit like: Who’s your favourite child?” he mentioned.
Nonetheless, Murphy, now 68, repeatedly spoke of how “proud” he was of his time in cost and declared New Jersey “is a state that’s turn into scorching once more.”
“There’s no administration in America previously eight years or within the historical past of New Jersey that’s been extra progressive than the Murphy administration,” he added at one level. “That I can say unequivocally.”
He was additionally defensive about a few of what he referred to as my “glass-half-empty” questions — those about issues his most fervent critics say and a number of the controversies peppered all through his tenure.
I’ve coated Murphy each step of the way in which. We’re each decidedly a bit grayer. And also you couldn’t miss his glasses this time: crimson frames to match the brilliant crimson socks peaking out of his now-trademark Allbirds. His style, like his humor, has at all times been idiosyncratic.
Would he run for workplace once more? “I take nothing off the desk,” Murphy mentioned. “However … don’t put some huge cash on that if you happen to’re a playing man.”
He additionally plans to maintain residing right here.
“I hope not quickly, however we’ll die in Jersey,” Murphy added.
Simply don’t count on to see him at many public occasions after exiting Trenton.
“I simply suppose you need to know when your time is up and switch the web page,” Murphy mentioned.
Phil Murphy in our entrance interview in 2018 (left) and our exit interview in 2026 (proper). NJ Advance Media
The interview got here the identical day a pro-Murphy group launched a six-figure ad campaign saying he achieved what he wished to. That’s no shock as that is exactly when departing governors attempt to make their last case for the historical past books. Count on loads of that in his final State of the State handle on Tuesday.
So what does he need his legacy to be? With Phil Murphy, even the query that ought to evoke essentially the most passionate response got here with, properly … not a lot colour. Actually not like Christie, who proclaimed on the finish of his tenure that Jerseyans would “miss me when I’m gone.”
“You recognize, individuals ask me this. I ought to have a greater reply,” Murphy mentioned, sitting on an extended, deep-green sofa subsequent to a photograph of his household.
“One is we’re who we mentioned we’d be. We ruled as we campaigned. And that doesn’t at all times occur on this line of enterprise.”
It was additionally a Jersey governorship like no different, with Murphy’s administration dealing with the fury of the COVID-19 pandemic and navigating President Donald Trump’s first and second administrations.
Each had been subjects of our wide-ranging chat. So had been Murphy’s benchmarks — from authorized weed, a better minimal wage, and a millionaires tax to gun legal guidelines to full pension funds, and the World Cup. We additionally touched on his dealing with of taxes and state spending, legal guidelines he signed that angered progressives, and his spouse’s U.S. Senate bid that divided Democrats and sparked the tip of Jersey’s controversial main poll system. We even chatted about his “finest pal,” Jon Bon Jovi.
Right here’s what Murphy mentioned about his biggest hits — and misses.
Murphy was governor in the course of the COVID-19 pandemic, which hit New Jersey particularly arduous. He is seen right here in a 2021 file photograph. Michael Mancuso | NJ Advance Media
The COVID governor
In the event you didn’t know Phil Murphy early in his governorship, you undoubtedly knew him after the coronavirus pandemic began ravaging the state in March 2020.
Murphy’s day by day briefings, at which he delivered somber updates concerning the state’s restrictions and rising dying toll, grew to become routine viewing for anxious and homebound residents. Contemporary off surgical procedure to take away a cancerous tumor from his kidney, the governor noticed his approval numbers skyrocket into the 70s at first, rivaling Christie’s post-Sandy figures.
“It feels prefer it was each yesterday and a thousand years in the past,” Murphy remembered.
The state was an early COVID-19 epicenter, with 13,000 deaths within the first wave, second-highest within the U.S. 1000’s died in nursing homes alone.
Murphy famously shut down faculties and non-essential companies early on and was a vocal proponent of masking and vaccines — strikes that disrupted norms however saved lives, he mentioned.
COVID got here up once I requested Murphy concerning the largest mistake of his tenure.
“I wouldn’t say a mistake,” he mentioned. “However I feel again to what little data we had — all of us, together with public well being consultants — within the early days of the pandemic. And had we a playbook that will have been off the shelf, that we may have relied on, lives would have been saved. That’s not simply in New Jersey, by the way in which.“
Murphy regularly confronted extra criticism, together with from those that felt the state didn’t act quickly enough. From those that felt he reopened the state — particularly faculties — too early. And from these pressured to wait longer than anticipated for unemployment advantages.
In the meantime, Murphy and the state confronted backlash over directives to nursing dwelling directors that referred to as for residents to be readmitted from hospitals, albeit with tips, in the course of the virus’ first surge. And the U.S. Justice Division launched a scathing report that mentioned the state “systematically violated the rights of residents” of veterans properties in Edison and Paramus.
I requested him if he regrets any of the choices on nursing properties or reopening faculties and companies.
“A lot of the reopening stuff is 20/20 hindsight, Monday morning quarterbacking,” Murphy responded. “Once you’ve obtained children’ lives at stake, with all due respect, you make selections primarily based on what you understand on the time.”
He mentioned the nursing dwelling questions have been “muddled by people who’re doing it for causes that aren’t in good religion.”
“I feel individuals take into consideration nursing properties prefer it’s a hospital or a lodge. That is the place they reside,” Murphy mentioned. “So the steering was unequivocal from us. … Had been there unhealthy operators on the market who might have ignored that? Sadly, most likely sure.”
Murphy ordered an independent review of New Jersey’s pandemic efficiency, which mentioned each the state and federal authorities fell quick of their response. Nonetheless, Murphy confused the 900-page report will present a pandemic “playbook” for future officers.
New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy provides an exit interview on Jan. 5 at his Statehouse workplace in Trenton, trying again on his two phrases as governor. Chris Pedota | For NJ Advance Media
Progressive and proud
Firstly of our chat, Murphy repeated an argument he’s made over time: that he “inherited” a New Jersey that lacked financial development and fairness, one which was “not a state individuals may belief.” His purpose, he likes to say, was to make the state “stronger, fairer, extra accountable.”
“I feel on these dimensions, we’ve achieved lots,” Murphy mentioned.
His first time period could also be remembered for a string of progressive legal guidelines he enacted: legalizing marijuana, regularly increasing the minimum wage to greater than $15 an hour (one of many highest within the nation), putting in a tax increase on millionaires to assist pay for his initiatives, enacting a slew of new gun-safety laws, and expanding paid family leave advantages, in addition to tax cuts on earned earnings and for these with kids.
Democrats coveted these insurance policies to no avail throughout Christie’s tenure — although it took longer than anticipated to get some handed after Murphy took over. That’s partly as a result of he at first had a shaky relationship with extra reasonable Democratic lawmakers who make up the bulk within the Statehouse.
Now, these legal guidelines are “a part of the furnishings,” Murphy mentioned.
Murphy’s workplace handed me a packet with pages of “legacy achievements.” On the prime: 2,132 payments signed into regulation, enacted with the assistance of a Democratic-led state Legislature all eight years. That features legalizing sports betting (ending a long-stalled push that predated his tenure), defending abortion rights, strengthening maternal health, banning plastic bags and straws, transforming affordable housing rules, permitting undocumented immigrants to get drivers licenses, and putting in automatic voter registration and early in-person voting, although not his purpose of same-day registration.
Additionally on the record: Murphy granted 307 individuals clemency (and mentioned he was late to our dialog as a result of he was engaged on extra in his last days). The state added 20,000 tuition-free pre-K seats on his watch, although fell in need of Murphy’s purpose of making that universal. He appointed five state Supreme Court justices. He set objectives for the state to rely 100% clean energy and require all new automobile gross sales right here to be electrical by 2035, although that hasn’t been codified into law. He additionally by no means totally established the state bank he proposed.
This previous week noticed a few of his last acts: Murphy signed laws mandating faculties undertake insurance policies banning cellphones in classrooms. And he signed an executive order to allow people with previous felony convictions to serve on juries, his newest in a sequence of a number of social justice initiatives.
“I feel we dedicated to one thing like 50-something marketing campaign guarantees, and we obtained just about, with a few exceptions, all of them executed,” Murphy mentioned. “Which I’ve to say I’m happy with.”
Critics on the fitting say Murphy pushed the state too far to the left. They usually notice he won a second term in 2021 by a surprisingly close 3-point margin, although he was additionally the primary Democratic New Jersey governor re-elected since 1976. “A win is a win,” Murphy concluded.
As for grading his governorship? “I’m unsure I’m into that,” Murphy mentioned. (Christie gave himself a B+, for reference.)
Murphy did give himself an “incomplete” grade on “lots of the fairness stuff.” However typically, he mentioned, his administration “obtained lots executed.”
“I’m happy with the entire vary of initiatives,” Murphy mentioned. “I’d love to do extra.”
President Donald Trump meets with New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy within the Oval Workplace of the White Home in 2020 to debate the coronavirus pandemic. Doug Mills/The New York Occasions/Pool/Getty Pictures
Donald Trump: How he actually feels
Murphy cites a stat about himself and the president: He’s the Democratic governor who has who has served the longest throughout Trump’s time within the White Home.
He usually took direct purpose at Trump in his first marketing campaign and first time period. Most notably, his administration enacted the Immigrant Trust Directive to restrict how a lot native regulation enforcement may cooperate with ICE.
However Murphy admits his relationship with Trump improved in the course of the pandemic.
“Individuals neglect early on, they really did properly and so they helped us save lives — there’s simply no two methods about it,” Murphy mentioned. “A whole lot of what people affiliate President Trump with the COVID response got here later. So we had a really intense, deep relationship, in addition to with individuals who had been on his workforce.”
Nonetheless, led by state Legal professional Basic Matt Platkin, Murphy’s administration repeatedly sued Trump’s administration over every part from birthright citizenship to funding freezes and DOGE.
Murphy additionally confused Trump’s second time period is “a unique animal.”
“The president’s instincts are type of unbridled,” he mentioned. “It’s much more difficult this time round. And also you’re seeing … lots of volatility, lots of carnage, lots of harmless lives that shall be impacted.”
Murphy additionally slammed Trump’s administration for halting wind farms off the Atlantic Coast. That, he mentioned, made him most indignant he’s been as governor.
“I feel it’s frankly silly what the feds have executed,” he mentioned. “So massively disappointing.”
His recommendation to Sherrill on working with Trump?
“Rise up for these whose values are being challenged, communities being challenged, stuff you don’t agree with. Don’t be bashful,” Murphy mentioned. “However that doesn’t imply … you may’t attempt to discover frequent floor.”
State price range: Agency footing or a large number for Mikie?
Murphy proponents have regularly informed me his largest achievement has been enhancing the state’s funds — regardless of repeated criticism from Republicans and enterprise leaders.
The record $58.8 billion budget Murphy signed final yr is $24 billion bigger than Christie’s last spending plan. However Murphy and his allies argue that’s partly as a result of he’s been righting the wrongs of the previous.
Among the many achievements listed within the packet Murphy’s workforce gave me: Making 5 straight full funds to the notoriously under-funded state-worker pension system (one thing that hasn’t occurred since 1996), growing faculty funding formulation cash by $4 billion (although critics say the formulation continues to be unfair to some districts and needs to be changed), and leaving with a price range surplus of greater than $6 billion. The spending was boosted by billions in federal COVID relief aid.
Critics counter that taxes have elevated underneath Murphy, spending has been uncontrolled, COVID support isn ceaselessly, and darkish price range days are forward for incoming governor Sherrill and lawmakers. They particularly warn of a $4 billion structural deficit within the price range, saying the state is spending greater than it’s taking in.
Murphy dismissed them. “Both they don’t know math or it’s political,” he mentioned.
He argued the price range’s surplus earlier than he took over was about $400 million, and the state has seen natural income development on prime of the tax will increase, particularly within the wake of restoration from the pandemic.
Murphy additionally took umbrage with reviews of how the typical property tax invoice in New Jersey continues to mount, reaching more than $10,000 final yr. He mentioned that doesn’t consider $4.3 billion in property tax aid he and Democrats enacted, resembling ANCHOR and Keep NJ.
“It drives me loopy,” he mentioned.
Murphy additional famous how Wall Avenue companies have upgraded New Jersey’s credit 9 occasions within the final eight years, after a sequence of downgrades underneath the valuable administration. In equity, he mentioned, lots of that had been “simmering for many years” with each Republicans and Democrats guilty.
He mentioned the credit score companies are “cold-blooded analysts, and so they’ve mentioned: ‘You recognize what, you’re heading in the right direction.’”
Nonetheless, I famous, lawmakers on each side of the aisle are worried about the price range’s future. Even progressives have taken problem with tax credits for film and television companies and fear that the Stay NJ property tax-relief program for seniors is just too costly and its threshold too broad.
“You’ve obtained lots of glass-half-empty questions. Might you in some unspecified time in the future ask me some glass-half-full questions?” he replied with amusing.
Requested to grade his report on affordability, Murphy mentioned “sturdy” however lamented how energy costs and health-care premiums have gone up.
“You’re by no means ultimately zone in New Jersey on affordability,” he mentioned.
Murphy asks critics of oft-maligned NJ Transit to acknowledge the system’s enhancements and “excessive batting common.” File photograph
NJ Transit: ‘I’m nonetheless alive!’
Then there’s NJ Transit. Murphy famously promised to repair the state’s perpetually criticized bus and rail system if it “kills me.”
After I introduced that up, Murphy stopped and checked his pulse. “Nonetheless alive,” he deadpanned earlier than insisting the system has seen main enhancements.
Critics say there’s nonetheless an extended approach to go — which Murphy mentioned is “unfair and truthful.”
“In case your practice was late this morning and also you started working later, faculty later … and also you’re pissed off about that, I don’t blame you, interval. I might be, too,” he mentioned.
However, he added, NJ Transit was “the mess throughout the mess that we inherited” and he hopes riders can “settle for enchancment” and a “very excessive batting common.” Murphy factors to better equipment and safety, in addition to new funding. Notably, he signed a law putting a surcharge on companies to offer NJ Transit with cash, although that expires on the finish of 2028. There have been fare hikes, as properly.
Murphy, in the meantime, insists NJ Transit is “completely” able to deal with the World Cup, the worldwide soccer event the state will maintain this summer season at MetLife Stadium in East Rutherford — an occasion Murphy, a soccer fanatic, helped bring here.
Katie Brennan, a former marketing campaign volunteer, alleged {that a} marketing campaign staffer raped her however acquired a job in Murphy’s administration anyway. The controversy loomed over Murphy’s first time period. Michael Mancuso | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Critics and controversies
One other large problem hung over Murphy’s first time period: allegations by former marketing campaign volunteer Katie Brennan {that a} marketing campaign staffer raped her however acquired a job in Murphy’s administration anyway. Brennan mentioned her pleas went unheard, although Murphy mentioned he was not conscious of the accusations earlier than they grew to become public. The scandal was the topic of high-profile legislative hearings.
Brennan in the end settled a lawsuit in opposition to the state for $1 million. She was elected last year to the state Meeting and can take workplace Tuesday.
There have been additionally reviews Murphy’s 2017 marketing campaign was “toxic.” Murphy apologized to “these we failed” and signed laws aiming to reform how sexual misconduct is dealt with within the state.
I requested him what he regrets and discovered from all of it.
“Primary, you gotta put victims up on the pedestal with primacy,” Murphy mentioned. “Secondly, I’ve signed legal guidelines the place we’re proper now a really totally different state than we had been eight years in the past by way of somebody having one thing terrible occur to them and the way they’re handled, how they’re revered or not because the case could also be.”
“We discovered lots.”
Then, in his second time period, Murphy signed a pair of legal guidelines that angered his longtime progressive allies: one revamping election finance rules, one other overhauling open-public records, or OPRA, requests. Advocates mentioned they weakened transparency.
Murphy vehemently denied that and insisted he’s nonetheless a “proud progressive” (in addition to a “cold-blooded capitalist.”)
“I didn’t run for governor to reform OPRA. I didn’t run for governor for the Election Transparency Act — though I’ll let you know we’ve executed extra for transparency than any administration within the historical past of the state,” he mentioned. “You make compromises to get an even bigger agenda achieved. And that is what politics is about.”
Sources told NJ Advance Media on the time that Murphy agreed to signal the information regulation as a part of a take care of lawmakers. In return, they agreed to his plea to regularly increase the state’s fuel tax to pay for transportation tasks.
In 2024, First Girl Tammy Murphy launched a bid for U.S. Senate to switch indicted Democrat Robert Menendez. She dropped out in the course of the main. AP Photograph/Seth Wenig
Tammy’s quick run for Senate
Midway by means of his second time period got here one other heated chapter, when First Girl Tammy Murphy launched a bid for U.S. Senate to switch indicted Democrat Robert Menendez.
Many prime Democrats shortly endorsed her, praising the work she had executed on maternal well being and extra. However critics referred to as it nepotism on steroids and accused her of making an attempt to leverage her husband’s power — partly due to New Jersey’s distinctive primary-ballot system, generally known as “the county line,” by which candidates endorsed by the occasion obtained alternative placement.
Her prime opponent was Democratic U.S. Rep. Andy Kim, who successfully sued to throw out the road system, saying it unfairly benefitted the primary girl.
Tammy Murphy in the end dropped out. Kim eventually won the seat and continues to be vowing to fight what he calls Jersey’s notorious “machine politics.”
Requested if he was shocked by the backlash, Phil Murphy mentioned: “Sure and no.” He mentioned Tammy “most likely would have received that race had she stayed in, however she realized that the occasion was gonna have a heck of a civil conflict to get from right here to there.”
Murphy additionally mentioned the progressives-vs.-establishment angle of all of it was a “false narrative.”
“Once you’re working within the system, God forbid you may make the system higher, otherwise you might be on the skin simply complaining concerning the system and never getting something executed,” he mentioned. “That’s the door Tammy takes and would have taken had she proceeded.”
So is the state higher or worse off with out its long-debated primary-ballot system?
“Combined feelings,” Murphy mentioned. “I by no means had the difficulty with the road ever. And I assumed the opposition of the road missed the purpose, to be sincere with you. However we’re the place we’re.”
He was gonna be an actor ….
Murphy virtually took a unique profession path. He was a musical theater actor at school and critically thought of stepping into that path.
He mentioned a pal satisfied him to check out for a present referred to as “Calamity Jane” whereas they had been in center faculty exterior of Boston. The purpose, Murphy mentioned, was “to satisfy ladies,” together with one named Laura.
“I don’t know what’s ever occurred to Laura, however this was our approach to meet Laura,” he mentioned.
Murphy even grew to become president of the vaunted Hasty Pudding Theatricals membership whereas at Harvard College. He mentioned he weighed an performing profession as a result of he didn’t have a job lined up out of faculty and since he deferred going to enterprise faculty, “partly as a result of I used to be an immature scholar and I wished extra maturity” and partly as a result of he didn’t have the cash to pay for it.
However, Murphy mentioned, he had a “sober second” when he realized he was “not ok” for the stage.
“I might have been ready tables,” he quipped.
Murphy ultimately went to the Wharton Faculty at Pennsylvania College earlier than his decades-long monetary profession.
“I might say I’m higher in each (finance and politics) than I used to be as an actor,” he mentioned.
When he went viral
The primary time Murphy went “viral” on social media was the night time of his first election — when he leapt onstage with a dancer-like aptitude.
Seven years later, he was everywhere in the net once more when he declared “We’re from Jersey, baby!” on the 2024 Democratic Nationwide Conference.
Requested which second he prefers, Murphy went with the latter.
“I’m shocked by the legs that has,” he mentioned. “I can’t say how many individuals stroll as much as me and say: ‘As a substitute of a selfie … are you able to say, ‘We’re from Jersey, child, and also you’re not’?”
Bruce or Bon Jovi?
I obtained in just a few lightning-round questions on the finish of our speak. Of two Jersey-connected TV reveals, Murphy picked “The Sopranos” over “Severance.” Island Seashore State Park is his favourite Jersey Shore spot. The argument over whether or not Jersey ought to permit individuals to pump their own gas is one he received’t contact “with a 10-foot pole.”
And of the state’s famed rockers, does he go together with Bruce Springsteen or Jon Bon Jovi?
“Each,” he mentioned, though he famous he has a private connection to the latter: The Murphys and Bon Jovis are longtime pals and neighbors in Middletown.
“Jon might be, arguably my finest — our greatest pal. Jon and Dorothea,“ Murphy mentioned. ”We’re near Bruce, however not like we’re with Jon.”
NJ Advance Media politics reporter Brent Johnson talks with Gov. Phil Murphy within the governor’s Statehouse workplace in Trenton. Chris Pedota | For NJ Advance Media
Murphy for president?
The rumor about himself that made him snigger essentially the most?
“This sense that I used to be head over heels operating for president,” Murphy replied.
We reporters heard a few times all through the years, from prime political sources, that Murphy was contemplating the White Home. However he by no means actually obtained shut?
“No, no,” Murphy mentioned. “That’s to not say I wouldn’t nonetheless do it, however … don’t put any of your life financial savings on it.”
Does that imply he received’t run for workplace once more?
“We’re going to take a while off, go chilly turkey for some variety of months,” he mentioned. “Perhaps when rested and recharged, we’ll begin to assess issues. I’m 68. I’m nonetheless — knock on wooden — I’m in good well being. I don’t suppose I’m executed, however I’m unsure what which means but.”
How do you observe 8 years in Trenton?
So what is subsequent for Murphy? He mentioned he and Tammy will hold their Middletown mansion however do plan to journey. Tammy can be chair of the World Cup host committee.
Not like some previous governors, although, Murphy mentioned he received’t be within the entrance row of Mikie Sherrill’s annual State of the State and price range speeches or at different public occasions in Jersey.
“January 20 at midday, I’m hanging my cleats up and I can’t be placing them again on,” Murphy mentioned.
One last query: What’s his parting message for his adopted dwelling state?
“I really like this place,” Murphy mentioned. “It’s been the dignity of a lifetime. … There’s no state like us in America. There’s no place like us on the earth.”
“Keep true to your self,” he added. “And at all times keep in mind: We’re from Jersey, child.”
