For the previous a number of years, few bands in Madison have captured town’s collective consideration fairly like The Spine Stealers. Initially an acoustic-led, folk-indebted duo made up of principal singer-songwriters Emma O’Shea and Kate Ruland, the band has been a lightning rod of intrigue. To their immense credit score, O’Shea and Ruland haven’t been overtaken by the present of public scrutiny, however formed by it. Via quite a lot of releases, a whole bunch of exhibits, and a shifting string of influences and collaborators, they’ve developed a strikingly intimate sound that has resonated with native—and, more and more, nationwide—listeners.
From a private angle, I can attest to that resonance on a number of fronts. I’ve made conscientious efforts to prioritize seeing them carry out, a number of instances over. “Midwest Winter” is certainly one of my favourite tracks from any band this decade. And for a slight peek behind the scenes: Tone Madison‘s year-end favorites choice course of for musical releases has largely been democratic, with each employees and freelancers submitting votes for releases and making claims to creator their accompanying writeup. No band has garnered extra votes or aggressive claims within the final three years than The Spine Stealers, underscoring the undertaking’s sweeping attraction.
O’Shea and Ruland have efficiently cultivated an ineffable songwriting voice that invokes familiarity, consolation, longing, and a way of (often apocalyptic) serenity unexpectedly. Macro-existential wonderment components in, even because the band’s lyrical narratives have a tendency in the direction of a hyper-specificity surrounding remoted, private situations. One of many earliest encapsulations of this dynamic—which has solely grown extra forceful within the ensuing years—got here by way of the plaintive January 2023 single, “Waffle House.” “There’s a bunch of wilted flowers / Above the sprint / You gave me final week,” sings O’Shea over ukulele, banjo, and bass, in a lilting, world-weary vibrato. “I hate all of the methods you like me,” goes the hook, leaving listeners to grapple with a painfully relatable sense of relational defeatism.
“I’d say many of the songs are nonfiction,” says O’Shea, sipping tea on the sofa at The Backbone Stealers’ Madison studio, throughout an extended sit-down dialog with Tone Madison in early September. “They’re all very a lot impressed by actual experiences I’ve had with going by way of heartbreak, or regardless of the hell. With ‘Waffle Home,’ I used to be stoned with the present boyfriend at a Waffle Home on a highway journey, however we didn’t break up proper there. And it won’t have been at 6:30 within the morning… I believe [our songwriting is] most likely 90% nonfiction.” “I’d say that’s fairly factual,” provides Ruland, highlighting a way of honesty that constitutes a key pillar of The Backbone Stealers’ innate draw.
Provided that the band has launched an album, three EPs (together with one live EP that reimagines past material), and a number of sturdy singles since debuting “Wisco” in late 2022, listeners needs to be forgiven in the event that they’re working beneath the idea that the songwriting course of is solely second nature to the band. In actuality, the reality is a bit murkier. “[Some songs] take a day, generally [it’s] a yr and a half,” says O’Shea. “It actually will depend on if it’s caught within the mind a bunch or not.” “I’d say [our songs get written] normally faster than extra slowly,” provides Ruland.
Each O’Shea and Ruland are keenly conscious that their charge of manufacturing is a quintessential think about sustaining listeners’ curiosity. “You must preserve placing stuff out. One thing shifted, which is daunting, but additionally I really feel like we’re pretty prolific, so I don’t assume it’s too onerous. However [we] strive to not launch something that’s half-hearted,” says O’Shea, talking on to an amorphous music panorama that’s more and more dictated by the brutal one-two punch of shortening attention spans and overwhelming access.
At numerous factors in our dialog, each O’Shea and Ruland comment that the band continues to be stringing collectively new modes of starting. From studying to play guitar over the pandemic, to turning into regulars at open mics, to aggressively enjoying exhibits and establishing a popularity as reside performers, the duo has maintained that they’re all the time at one beginning line or one other. This opening chapter sensibility extends to O’Shea and Ruland’s latest conviction to take the band extra severely—in addition to the choice to formalize pedal metal participant James Strelow as an official band member. However they’re nonetheless cognizant of the truth that incremental progress is progress.
“By way of numbers, our listeners have gotten considerably larger,” says Ruland, deep into the dialog. “However you’ve acquired to watch out with these issues, as a result of it’s all the time an inflow. Wherever it settles is actually [the] most necessary [point] to concentrate on. And I undoubtedly don’t need to, like, concentrate on simply the quantity factor. But it surely was good being on tour in Seattle and Portland [this summer], and really having individuals come out to hearken to our music.”
Adapting to new environments and realities has been a operating theme for The Backbone Stealers. When O’Shea and Ruland fashioned the band, they have been largely solely spending time with one another, and following social distancing pointers. Because the urge for food for reside, in-person occasions hit a surging peak within the wake of the pandemic, they capitalized on that curiosity, and located methods to maintain their momentum going. From winning the Blue Ox Music Festival’s “Virtual Band Competition” in 2023, to onboarding a sterling forged of rotating auxiliary members, to a Weary Traveler residency, the band has positioned themselves at numerous forefronts with consistency.
And the music they’ve been making since 2022 justifies these showcases.
On September 6, the band launched the Yellow Feather EP, which stands as the current end result of their creating artistry. All 5 tracks proof totally different slivers of The Backbone Stealers’ system, with every new tune conveying a distinct type of melancholia. The imagery of dancing within the snow beneath the Northern Lights in “Previous Life” is evocative sufficient to move most listeners to tender recollections of winter or taking in astronomic phenomena. And the latter additionally holds true for the invocation of stargazing in “Bloodletting.” “Michigan” options instrumentation that establishes the attribute quietude inherent to a lot of the band’s work, which inspires listeners to lean in and really take up the fabric. Even the rockier, full-electric band moments—”LOML” and “You’re Simply A Man”—set up a way of bitterness or remorse that performs into the extra frequent, on a regular basis tragedy of avoidable battle or quick-souring relationships.
Yellow Feather‘s materials comes throughout because the work of a band discovering a newfound confidence. “LOML,” particularly, expands among the haunted, electrical swings the band’s taken at a number of factors prior to now (“Midwest Winter,” a number of tracks on If The Sky Falls, Past The Sidewalks). And the experiment appears to have unlocked a willingness to toy with atmospheric experimentation. “We’re entertaining recording the brand new songs we’ve got with Kate’s boyfriend, Xavier, and doing a [little bit of a] lo-fi factor,” says O’Shea, casually highlighting not simply one other occasion of the band searching for out new types of atmospheric development, however their undeterred capability for fixed creation. Each of these features appear to exist in tandem with a newly attentive concentrate on professionalism.
Whereas their eyes transfer in the direction of the longer term, and a brand new set of potential alternatives, O’Shea and Ruland stay in lockstep.
“We’re engaged on a brand new assortment of songs, attempting to determine how [we can professionally expand] subsequent yr,” says O’Shea. “I don’t know if it means [hiring] reserving brokers, or a supervisor, however we’re wanting into methods the place we will be touring with a much bigger band, or [to] attempt to get [more shows and awareness outside] of this regional market. However for now, I’m simply writing, working.”
With regards to that sense of rising ambition and the necessity to view the band in additional skilled phrases, Ruland is unsparingly forthright. “Finally, to set the report straight: we’re not on the lookout for fame and fortune, essentially. We’re on the lookout for this to be a sustainable a part of our life that we are able to legitimately reside off of, and nonetheless take pleasure in it,” she says. “We have now been getting inexperienced lights, and we’re nonetheless confidently getting in no matter course we’re going.”
The Backbone Stealers’ subsequent Madison look will probably be at The Majestic on Friday, November 14, because the opening act for The Final Revel.
[Editor’s note: The Spine Stealers’ James Strelow had a scheduling conflict, and would have otherwise been part of this interview.]
Tone Madison: You’ve coated how the band began prior to now; what drove the impulse to not simply begin the band, however decide to being one?
Kate Ruland: It’s form of a two-part factor, as a result of it was simply us at first. It was straightforward to formulate a band, as a result of it was actually simply us. We acquired alternatives fairly shortly that we simply determined to say, “Properly, why not strive it out?” And issues simply form of stored occurring from there. And it was, I don’t know, by no means an actual [question].
We simply have been experimenting with issues after which bringing different individuals in, and nonetheless getting gigs, and it was enjoyable. So we simply stored doing it. Now we’re on the level the place we’ve got some expertise enjoying with a full band, and [of] having introduced individuals on. I believe that this tour [with Ross Thorn], now, three years later, basically, is definitely solidifying extra of a acutely aware effort to be like, “Okay, I assume we’re gonna do that factor.” We did do [a lot at] the start, going across the Midwest and doing all of these exhibits, and issues like that. However now, I believe it’s a distinct degree. Our objectives have shifted just a little bit. If something, now could be the purpose the place we’re feeling like [we’re seeing the] fruits of our labor, and [that the band] is price placing extra time into.
Emma O’Shea: Yeah, after we began, it was through the pandemic. I had simply graduated from school, [and Kate] moved again from Chicago and picked up the guitar. I [thought], “I’m by no means going to have the possibility to ever write once more, or do something.” There [was] a lot existential dread. I don’t understand how [Kate] felt through the pandemic, however I used to be like, “Okay, so I’ll simply make investments my time into this factor that’s kind of like a distraction of every thing else happening.”
After which it was like, “Okay, we’re 23, virtually 24, and solely play in entrance of our dad and mom.” As a result of the considered enjoying in entrance of individuals… Neither of us have been snug enjoying in entrance of different individuals. However then we have been like, “Okay, we’ve got to go to an open mic as a result of, as a result of we’re 23, residing at house.”
Kate Ruland: And why not? Not even with the intention of like, “Yeah, in fact [we should do that.]” There’s all the time the underlying curiosity of like, “Oh, possibly one thing fascinating might occur out of this.” However purely from an leisure standpoint. We might [go] discover Willy Road, as a result of we grew up right here, however we didn’t actually spend a complete lot of time in our younger maturity being a Madisonian, essentially. So we’d [go] hang around at Mickey’s [Tavern], meet individuals. I believe we have been additionally hanging out with one another so much, and that’s nice.
Emma O’Shea: Throughout the pandemic, we have been solely hanging out with one another. [Laughs.]
Kate Ruland: Yeah, so it was undoubtedly a curiosity factor.
Emma O’Shea: There was one time the place you mentioned we have been speaking about [committing to the band], and also you’re like, “I imply, it’s usually for jobs”—or one thing like that—you interview, and then you definitely resolve whether or not you need to do it or not. And I believe as a result of we did the open mic and acquired provided to open for Able Baker, and that band, Duck Turnstone. That was our first gig, the identical month that we did our first open mic. After which we simply took [offers] to play wherever.
Kate Ruland: As a result of why would you say no?
Emma O’Shea: It was by no means a dialog. And now I believe there may be [an] intentionality of, “Okay, now we’re selecting to do that, and there may be some danger in that,” nevertheless it’s not so, like, fly wherever-the-heck.
Tone Madison: In order that Ready Baker present was your first non-open mic efficiency. And was this earlier than or after [Able Baker frontperson] Tim [Anderson] moved to Chicago?
Kate Ruland and Emma O’Shea: Earlier than!
Kate Ruland: I believe that was a very good yr earlier than he moved.
Emma O’Shea: I nonetheless have the video of—he came to visit, and what was that Carrie Underwood tune? [Singing] “Blown Away.” [Laughing.] Anyway, that was earlier than he moved [to Chicago]. He was at an open mic, after which he—and Neal [Jochmann]’s nice too. We like Neal so much. We performed in his basement!
Kate Ruland: It’s fascinating, that query. As a result of there’s definitely a lacking portion. The only reply actually is that we… I don’t know if it’s luck concerned. In a grateful sense: we did that first gig. For the primary yr or two, individuals simply reached out to us to do exhibits. And it’s like… why wouldn’t we do it? It’s pushing your self out of your consolation zone, which is enjoyable for us to do.
Emma O’Shea: There was a lot anticipation to get out of the home. I believe that helped so much, too. As a result of individuals needed to have any cause to exit once more, and see reside music, or go to locations the place issues are literally occurring, or the place individuals are. That helped. Getting thrown right into a bunch of…
Kate Ruland: …new scenes. And the individuals have been engaging.
Emma O’Shea: It feels so way back now.
Tone Madison: Within the spirit of getting gives out of the blue and having individuals attain out, you’ve had quite a lot of important collaborators. Some have stayed with you for greater than a one-off. I’ve personally seen you play as every thing from a duo to a quintet. How do these auxiliary collaborators typically come into the image?
Emma O’Shea: It’s occurred very serendipitously. I went to Blue Ox in 2022, and after I got here again from that, I went “We have now to go do an open mic.” So we went to an open mic, and we acquired concerned round all these bluegrass individuals. And there was very a lot a strain, as a result of we have been nonetheless determining our sound, and other people have been saying “You simply don’t know what you want but. You’re so used to simply enjoying two guitars that this may sound good, or this may sound good.”
So we’re like, “Mandolin. Upright bass. We’d like banjo.” After which it’s like, nicely… I don’t assume we’re actually bluegrass. And so we met James Grenier, [our] final pedal metal participant. We [were] enjoying with him for a bit, after which he didn’t need to tour round as a lot, so we have been simply on our personal, which undoubtedly made us uncomfortable. And [we were] questioning issues for a minute, as a result of we relied on him a lot. Then we re-solidified not counting on different musicians. However then my brother—who has been enjoying bass with us—[got involved,] and his girlfriend, Molly, initially was enjoying bass with us. After which she began enjoying banjo.
Then we met James Strelow when he was enjoying with Jane Hobson on the Excessive Midday Saloon, and simply requested him. As a result of he lives in Madison, we like pedal metal, and he’s so versatile with enjoying so many alternative devices, it’s insane.
It’s been enjoyable experimenting with the full-band factor, however we’re going again all the way down to a trio for almost all of exhibits, and possibly full band now and again. However I don’t know. It simply form of happened. I really feel like, if we like them… we’ve undoubtedly entertained enjoying with some individuals the place it’s like, “I don’t assume that is gonna work.”
Kate Ruland: The pedal metal has turn out to be a really figuring out sound with us, and that’s why it was onerous for James Grenier to simply… He had his personal priorities, and we have been beginning to actually formulate some longer-term, larger aspirations for this complete undertaking. So him deciding, basically, to probably not play with us anymore was troublesome. And pedal metal gamers are extremely onerous to seek out normally. We didn’t even assume one other one existed till we met James.
Emma O’Shea: After which they’re each named James. [Laughing.]
Kate Ruland: So then we have been similar to, “Oh, we should always attain out to him.” After which [we] began enjoying. I believe the very first thing we did with him was at Weary Traveler, after we have been nonetheless doing that residency there. We love James [Strelow]. He has turn out to be a really solidified a part of The Backbone Steelers. He aligns with what we see occurring with the band. And that’s nice, however you’re proper: it was fairly serendipitous. He simply confirmed up in our path, after which we determined [to ask] him if he would have an interest. He’s been so humble. We knew him for like, six months earlier than we knew that he can completely shred on guitar and play any instrument. He’s, sincere to god, most likely the perfect musician I’ve ever met. He’s simply so educated, and he has such a very good ear. We have been simply hanging out final evening and songwriting and ending up [songs]—he has lots of excellent concepts. We belief his style.
Emma O’Shea: And he needs to assist with the going ahead [aspect]. Like, the administration duties. “You guys ought to do that. Hold placing music out.” All these issues. It’s good to have a 3rd individual desirous to take that on.
Tone Madison: Up up to now, you’ve maintained an aggressive calendar for exhibits and releases. Is {that a} tempo you’re trying to keep, or one thing you anticipate scaling again?
Kate Ruland: It will likely be maintained. I believe we share this philosophy [that] if there are songs that we’ve got deemed worthy, there’s no cause not to place them out and report them. I believe that’s a extremely necessary a part of rising as a musician, when it comes to getting individuals to listen to your music. I don’t assume that it’ll essentially decelerate. I imply, there’s, in fact, pure ebbs and flows of if you’re feeling like you’re in a temper to create extra. That’s simply pure and unavoidable. However for probably the most half, as I’ve witnessed over the past three years, there hasn’t actually been any time frame the place there aren’t—virtually continuously—new songs being produced amongst us. I don’t know, do you’re feeling in another way? [Looking at Emma.]
Emma O’Shea: No. We undoubtedly have had the emotions of wanting again on issues and being like, “Type of want that we didn’t put that on there.” We didn’t do that with that… which, it doesn’t actually matter. As a result of we need to see how far this will go, it’s kind of like throwing shit on the wall and seeing what sticks. So I really feel like [we’re] placing new stuff out with intentionality, and attempting to be sure that the manufacturing is nice. And [that] we’re not simply slapping shit collectively and placing organ on loopy shit, or one thing like that.
However I really feel like it’s good to maintain placing stuff on the market, particularly these days. It simply looks as if if you happen to don’t, if you happen to aren’t placing new stuff on the market, you form of simply fall to the wayside. I don’t know learn how to really feel about that, since you see [that] there’s lots of [huge] musicians that launch their debut album, it blows up. It’s enormous. After which—particularly pre-2020—each two years there’s a brand new album. And now it doesn’t really feel like that’s the way it works. You must preserve placing stuff out. One thing shifted, which is daunting, but additionally I really feel like we’re pretty prolific, so I don’t assume it’s too onerous. However [we] strive to not launch something that’s half-hearted.
Kate Ruland: By way of exhibits, I don’t know. I believe that can lower just a little bit.
Emma O’Shea: High quality over amount. No shitty bars the place individuals aren’t listening. [Laughing.]
Kate Ruland: Yeah. We’ve additionally discovered so much about the place our music is greatest digested—the place it’s most satisfying for us to carry out. And [we] have a more moderen objective of prioritizing being [an] opening act for larger bands at bigger venues which have a broader attain. Not that I believe that our metropolis or market is totally tapped; everybody who might presumably hear us has heard us. We nonetheless will mess around Madison, however that was a big a part of doing the tour too. It’s [more] stepping into newer cities and never enjoying domestically as a lot. That’s additionally a part of the rising course of, I assume.
Tone Madison: Talking of present calendars, in an Andy Moore-authored piece for Isthmus, you mentioned you performed 89 exhibits in 2023. Do you continue to preserve a operating depend?
Kate Ruland: No, we don’t. I believe it was related in 2024.
Emma O’Shea: We have now all of them on the Google Calendar.
Kate Ruland: Yeah, we might depend ’em up. I believe as yearly glided by, like… The primary yr was a ton of enjoyable, and we have been enjoying lots of exhibits. After which we have been like, “Oh, we should always possibly not play as many.” After which we nonetheless performed as many. Even this yr has been pared again, I believe a good quantity, however there’s some flexibility. [If a band] coming by way of city asks us to play and we admire their music, or, , assume it might be a very good match, it’s onerous to say no to these issues. I believe being too overly strategic at this level wouldn’t do us any good.
Emma O’Shea: Yeah, we’re nonetheless small. We’re nonetheless attempting to get someplace.
Kate Ruland: I believe [it’s important to form] relationships with different artists which might be coming by way of city, or, , that you simply simply haven’t gotten the possibility to play with but. Like, that’s the place probably the most precise enjoyment comes. So it’s onerous to be picky-choosy generally too, as a result of we need to be sure that we’re having good crowds at our exhibits. However it will possibly’t all the time be an ideal state of affairs.
Tone Madison: Shifting again only a contact, plainly being that prolific could make it actually troublesome to gauge incremental progress, particularly when it comes to craft. Have there been any important markers which have made you re-contextualize the place you’re at as artists?
Emma O’Shea: I don’t know. It does really feel like issues are getting larger, but additionally, I really feel fairly remoted. We’re all the time not the place I need to be but, so it doesn’t… I don’t know. It’s onerous. Generally it seems like issues transfer too slowly, however the grass is all the time greener. I hope individuals assume [that we’re progressing].
Kate Ruland: Yeah, it’s onerous to level to any particular factor essentially. There have been kind of monumental exhibits that we had—one of many first actually validating ones being very early on after we performed at The Majestic. I believe that propelled lots of the persevering with vitality all through the final couple of years. After which it was additionally very validating getting a proposal to play at Blue Ox this yr, , on the official lineup.
After placing out the EP, and having the one that we did with Pretty Pretty Please, and issues like that… By way of numbers, our listeners have gotten considerably larger. However you’ve acquired to watch out with these issues, as a result of it’s all the time an inflow. Wherever it settles is actually [the] most necessary [point] to concentrate on. And I undoubtedly don’t need to, like, concentrate on simply the quantity factor. But it surely was good being on tour in Seattle and Portland, and really having individuals come out to hearken to our music.
There’s that concern of like, in fact, individuals within the Midwest learn about us, or may take time to return and see us. But it surely’s a frightening factor to go all the best way throughout the nation after which hope individuals come. And we did have actually good turnouts with the lineups that we had, and that was validating. However yeah, honestly, we’re form of at this bizarre level, which form of brings again to the primary query of, like, “When have you ever guys actually determined to, like, be a band?”
With the expansion and the time with something, I believe it makes it’s important to reassess. As a result of I believe we’re realizing now, it’s nonetheless actually solely simply starting, and it’ll most likely get tougher from right here. I believe that we’ve determined to cross a threshold with [not exactly putting] extra religion within the course of, however [in] actually making a acutely aware choice to be like, “We’re going to proceed to do this.”
It does take a sure degree of sacrifice, and also you undoubtedly really feel delusional lots of instances pursuing one thing like this. So it’s simply these little issues that form of get into your head about the way it actually is a really lengthy journey. I don’t assume we have been fully naive to that originally, like we’ve all the time talked about: “Okay, nicely, Sierra Farrell is like 40, and she or he, , was nonetheless enjoying for like, 10 or 15 years earlier than she is the place she’s at presently.” However that doesn’t make it any much less daunting a state of affairs to be in, proper?
Emma O’Shea: Since you’re not assured that at 40.
Kate Ruland: Finally, to set the report straight: we’re not on the lookout for fame and fortune, essentially. We’re on the lookout for this to be a sustainable a part of our life that we are able to legitimately reside off of, and nonetheless take pleasure in it. And nonetheless really feel like we’re not having to be one thing that we aren’t, or are [being] too energetically depleted in, or sacrificing the fallacious issues with the intention to get someplace.
However that’s all one thing that you determine as you go, and a giant dialog that we had after we acquired again from tour… It’s similar to now, it would really feel actually unsure, however now is just not the time to [be extremely aggressive]. We have now been getting inexperienced lights, and we’re nonetheless confidently getting in no matter course we’re going. However, yeah, it’s fascinating, I don’t know.
I believe we’re fairly aligned, clearly. [Motions at the tea mugs they’re both drinking.]
Emma O’Shea: [Playfully] Clearly.
Kate Ruland: Clearly we’re aligned. Naturally, we each have worries about issues.
Emma O’Shea: Particularly individuals that aren’t musicians and/or relations are very inclined to be like “So, when are you gonna do one thing else?” Or, “Do you actually assume that is going someplace?” I simply… I’ve by no means requested any individual that about what they’re doing with their life. That’s an insane factor to [say]. And I will be very impressionable to individuals’s doubts of issues. I believe with this undertaking, there hasn’t ever actually been a spot the place we’ve spliced ourselves and [gone], “Properly, we simply should sound like this—we’ve got to emulate [this] now, to get this.” Or, “We have now to do that to get this.”
There’s undoubtedly been [an aspect of] probably not questioning what, or how, we’re doing it. However it may be intimidating to place lots of effort into this. It’s not like an funding in a profession the place you could have a 401K, and that 15 years down the road, it is going to repay and you may be positive. However individuals get fired from the roles that they assume [are] a protected guess, after which they lose their house. There’s simply so many dangers and lack of management that you’ve got in life in any case.
Kate Ruland: There’s zero safety. And I believe that individuals are fairly risk-averse, so I’m not shocked. It’s probably not a relatable place to be in, and there’s individuals who love us and help us. However such as you mentioned, except you’re a musician, and have been doing the issues… I simply can’t actually hearken to these individuals.
Emma O’Shea: And then you definitely meet musicians, too, which might be form of in the identical boat, they usually’re fully snug. And so they’re like “Yeah, that is simply what you do in life. You’re taking the dangers, you do the issues, and also you see what occurs.” That’s the vitality I like being round.
Kate Ruland: I believe that’s a part of why it’s labored to date. The opposing aspect of that doesn’t appear fascinating in any respect, so why not? From the start it’s been “Why not see what occurs?” However, nonetheless human on the finish of the day.
Emma O’Shea: Nonetheless human.
Tone Madison: Quite a lot of your latest music has clearly operated outdoors the bounds of “conventional” people or bluegrass, as you talked about earlier. You’ve been in a position to mix in these parts of ambient and post-rock, amongst others. Are you approaching songs with sure genres in thoughts, or are the songs dictating your stylistic method?
Emma O’Shea: I don’t assume that we’re approaching [writing new songs with] any genres in thoughts. I believe we’ve taken various things that sound good, totally different chords. And really, we did be taught guitar, absolutely, in 2020. No musical background earlier than that. There’s nonetheless lots of new issues that we’re studying. However I really feel prefer it didn’t work out with categorizing our music as bluegrass, after which attempting to form-force ourselves to suit into this class of music.
I really feel like we’ve form of had enjoyable with it. We’re undoubtedly very open-minded. And I believe that the experimental, indie, rocky, folky, gothic-y, regardless of the heck I do not know, is simply enjoyable to fiddle with. I really feel like we’re pretty snug probably not assigning too many genres to it, as a result of I believe that it’s like a worm within the head just a little bit.
There’s a slight apprehension to “indie-folk,” I imply, that that encapsulates so many various kinds of music, and I don’t actually know even what that music is. I do, however I don’t. Then the nation parts, or Americana… I really feel like assigning the genres to it takes away the enjoyable of experimenting with issues. However I like discovering out totally different names, just like the genres you simply listed. I really feel like I don’t actually have many names. I don’t know that many genres, or obscure genres, or totally different particular ones that fall beneath sure umbrellas. It’s form of onerous. That’s additionally a part of the crux of not wanting to call a style, as a result of I don’t need to title the fallacious one, or put ourselves in a field.
Kate Ruland: Music is simply getting genre-less normally, and I believe that’s why lots of these area of interest classes are popping out, as a result of there may be naturally a lot overlap. And, I imply, the folks factor is there, and there may be some indie or like, ambient vitality happening. But it surely form of simply is what it’s, to be sincere. Even off the final EP, some songs have been just a little extra folk-oriented. After which, like, “Love Of My Life” [“LOML”] will get a bit rockier, and has lots of, I don’t know… it’s simply totally different. And I like that course. I believe it speaks extra to our private model of music, and that acquired just a little bit began with “Midwest Winter,” and attempting new issues with that. We even have been speaking final evening about possibly doing extra double electrical guitar stuff, and having pedal metal, and James can do [whatever] else.
Emma O’Shea: It undoubtedly is the start. It undoubtedly seems like we’re beginning to not really feel imposter syndrome as a lot. [Or] feigning being musicians with no background information of issues. Taking part in sufficient and now with James and feeling solidified on this group—us three are the band. Leaning extra into simply what we like and what our sound is. Once you start one thing—not [just] music, however normally—it’s kind of like, “Okay, nicely, this must be perfected.” I must know the place I’m going, instantly, from the start. But it surely’s taken us three years to even notice, like, “Okay, this is truly the start.”
Tone Madison: “LOML” and “Midwest Winter” are each nice examples of an expanded sound, however you’re additionally nonetheless releasing songs which might be comparatively spare. Are there key drivers in your intuition to both increase or reduce on preparations?
Emma O’Shea: No matter emotion is behind it.
Kate Ruland: Yeah, it’s fairly spur of the second, I assume. With recording, [we] lay down the bottom of every thing, after which if there’s an concept, we are likely to discover it. And there’s a pair issues the place we weren’t certain. [Like whether or not] we needed to place drums on “LOML.” I’m fairly certain there are drums on there. Now, it’s not too over-thought, which I believe is nice.
We undoubtedly have been impressionable [when it came to] sure parts being in songs earlier than and possibly weren’t feeling proper about it, however didn’t know learn how to say it. Or thought we should always belief the those that have been suggesting these issues. However I don’t know, I bear in mind being within the studio, and we recorded “LOML,” and we each simply form of knew. Like, “Okay, this tune is actually good, liking all of the tones on this.” And a pair concepts have been thrown on the market. In that tune, there’s truly a factor the place you set a cellphone on a pickup after which texted the cellphone, and it got here by way of with all this static. Did we find yourself utilizing that in there, or did we pull that out?
Emma O’Shea: I don’t know! It would nonetheless be in there, loosely, however James has executed that reside.
Kate Ruland: Yeah, that form of impressed James to [switch] his tone on his pedal metal. Doing issues like that. So it’s fairly natural, not too over-thought.
Emma O’Shea: I believe it was a protected guess at first. And I do admire that this did naturally come to us. The people songs, and the sadder parts of issues, simply got here naturally.
However I believe there was additionally [a time of] not being snug singing louder, or trusting which you could play the instrument loud sufficient to go off. However we’ve actually loved stepping into that rockier factor. Quite a lot of the brand new stuff, even [what] we have been writing final evening, doesn’t sound like how we’ve written songs prior to now, definitely.
Embracing the feelings actually is rather like the [sweet spot]. We don’t have anyone within the studio, telling us—generally Jeff [Peterson], who we [regularly] report with, will counsel issues generally, or secretly put some, like guitar on there. And [we’ll go], “get that off of there!” [Laughing.] However typically talking, I really feel like we’re good at figuring out what sounds good emotionally, slightly than like, what simply sounds good. It does hit you indirectly, whether it is one thing good.
Tone Madison: Quite a lot of your songwriting and storytelling is grounded in craving, loss, and quite a lot of different large, however relatable feelings. How a lot intentionality is there behind returning to these themes?
Emma O’Shea: That is one thing we relate collectively on, too, however I’m a really melancholic individual. And I do know that that’s only a attribute that I’ve. However I additionally discover it extremely inspiring. I’ve gotten higher. Like, we’ve written some humorous issues, or, like, have some extra cheekier songs. I assume that we’re practising.
However earlier than, lots of that was poetry that I wrote in school. Simply random phrases and scraps and stuff like that. And I really feel prefer it’s only a frequent feeling that I’ve on a regular basis, of the best way that I see issues. Now, there isn’t a lot a lean-to on it, like, [not] a glorification, however I undoubtedly assume at first it was a real feeling. However there was like a lean-to insert, of like, virtually romanticizing being depressed, to alleviate being depressed.
I really feel like now, that’s simply not probably the most fascinating factor about songwriting. And it’s nonetheless undoubtedly an emotion that I gravitate in the direction of. However I believe shifting ahead—like, “LOML” is an efficient instance of it not being this, like, “Oh, it’s simply occurring to me.” Not that. I believe that’s how all the songs have been earlier than. However I undoubtedly assume [I] faucet into just a little little bit of some anger after which rid [the feeling of] that have. Going ahead, there’s lots of songs that aren’t simply unhappy about life in kind of, like a…
Kate Ruland: …static manner of capturing the unhappiness. I’ve observed that with [Emma], as a result of [she’s] the primary songwriter. And I attempt to faucet in. I’ve by no means been a lot of a author, to be sincere. It’s far more troublesome for me. However there may be the expertise of doing it now for 3 years. There’s extra complexity than simply that. Like, there may be the anger. There’s a extra full story round these items, even when they’re fully unresolved. And I do agree [that] it’s extra fascinating, and sincere, in a manner. That’s what makes it extra provocative. From a witnessing point-of-view.
Emma O’Shea: However, yeah, I undoubtedly assume, like, issues will be unhappy, so long as they’re barely self-deprecating too, as a result of then it truly is [more provocative].
But it surely’s been enjoyable studying to jot down with [Kate] too. As a result of as a lot as [she wasn’t] a author earlier than, [she’s] tapped into one thing that is sort of a full yin-yang to my model of writing. [It] brings new air to that finish. It may well really feel just a little bit static, or stagnant, I assume, solely current within the model of writing that I’ve. “Past Life” is an ideal instance of that, the place there’s extra of a perspective. The silver lining, and appreciation of letting issues go. There’s a barely extra optimistic tone of melancholy that comes together with your model of writing that I believe enhances [mine]. Each of our types of writing can work rather well collectively in that vein.
Kate Ruland: It’s fascinating. Quite a lot of “Previous Life” was one of many first songs that, absolutely, I wrote. Wanting again, “Midwest Winter,” “Quitting,” “Feelings of Floating,” these have been songs that I had predominantly written, however they weren’t truly about something. Like, they have been a non-existent situation. Which, I don’t assume that there’s something essentially to look down upon with that, however I believe that’s simply in respect to me not understanding precisely learn how to write truthfully about issues so nicely.
Emma O’Shea: [Kate is] good at observing and writing in regards to the outer world round [her], and getting inspiration. From a storytelling finish, I’m an excessive amount of in my very own head. [I draw a lot from] private expertise, which is why it’s good to bounce off the each of [those styles], as a result of I’m not that fascinating. It’s not as fascinating to simply write from one perspective versus having the mixture of each.
Tone Madison: Quite a lot of your lyrics have included hyper-specific observations and allusions to Wisconsin, however the sound additionally feels distinctly related to the Higher Midwest. How a lot of an impression do you assume location has had in your work?
Emma O’Shea: An enormous one. Quite a lot of our tenacity for locating chords that match nicely—or discovering sounds—is emotional. And we’re each from the Midwest. I went to highschool in Eau Claire, and didn’t do music there, however was surrounded by lots of fascinating characters that did music. But in addition, simply the vitality of Up North tradition—log cabin-looking, shitty dive bars, the place the agricultural [way] of life is “You don’t matter as a lot, and I’ve shit to do”… I really feel like there’s a lonesomeness in that, however there’s additionally a comfortability in that isolation.
Particularly seasonally, there’s lots of inspiration that comes from experiencing 4 extraordinarily totally different seasons that may all be harsh in their very own methods. I beloved residing [in the] Up North, and going as far north as I might. Even within the pandemic, there was a facet of that. After all, we’re in Solar Prairie, nevertheless it was simply within the yard, at evening, round bonfires. Or we have been in our dad and mom’ basement, or we have been going out to random fields, or one thing like that. However the isolation of simply being in a rural space in nature, fully alone, after which letting no matter spirits come up from that state of affairs.
Kate Ruland: I agree. I believe it’s a pure escape. And aside from something actually lyrical, you go up there, you could have good instances, you could have unhealthy instances, and there’s a pure draw. By proxy, in fact, rising up right here, it’s onerous for it to not seep into little metaphors and personifications throughout the music. It’s additionally only a very particular place [that’s] indicative of our upbringings and the place we at the moment are. We’re going up in a pair weeks with all our girlfriends. It’s a pure route. I believe it lends so much to our personalities, normally, outdoors of being musicians.
Emma O’Shea: The nice instances. There’s a degree of escapism up there, to a spot that feels extra snug. And that’s what Michigan’s about, too. I [drove] as much as—I don’t even know the place that was, Traverse Metropolis?—and it’s fucking downpouring your complete weekend after I [got] up there. And I [was] in a tiny home, writing about that. I additionally assume consuming tradition in Wisconsin—particularly Up North Wisconsin—has [had] a giant impact on my life. Usually, the tradition is fairly crass and blue collar, from what I’ve skilled being Up North. There’s a distinct perspective on life that may be… not nihilistic, however there may be [a] forlornness that exists. An “Should you don’t prefer it, then go away.”
Tone Madison: Earlier on on this dialog, you talked about songs or materials that you simply want hadn’t been launched. However you additionally just lately simply put out a complete EP that was successfully reworks of current materials. How instructive is the method of analyzing or revisiting current materials for you?
Emma O’Shea: We undoubtedly have an intention of desirous to play songs how they’re recorded and sound, which is why there may be generally an inkling of [a sense of expansion] on the complete album. I believe we have been simply inclined to [listen to] different individuals’s opinions of like, “Oh, what if you happen to do that, strive this?” And form of globbing on a bunch of stuff.
I believe that there’s so much there that, like, you don’t expertise. Like, we’d by no means play the organ reside except James is ready to. So there’s various things the place it’s like… I do like experimentation. Someone I’ve been listening to so much recently is Bendigo Fletcher, but additionally his aspect undertaking, Moose Loon. And he has, like, a kazoo in there in some unspecified time in the future. I like that, as a result of lots of instances, particularly these days, individuals are going to be listening to your music on-line solely.
However we undoubtedly have performed like, by way of outdated songs, and it’s like, “Oh, it’d be enjoyable to play a quicker model of this, or a distinct model of this, or, truly, let’s begin the tune with this,” since you actually can simply say, “Fuck it.” And who cares? What are they going to do? Nobody can get too upset at you for enjoying the tune fully in another way than how they know.
Kate Ruland: However yeah, possibly if we ever did get actually large, a few of that early stuff would get re-recorded differently. As a result of I bear in mind even, like, we went to that Watchhouse live performance, they usually performed one tune in a distinct key, and I used to be, like, devastated. So it’s form of a toss-up. But it surely’s a little bit of a time capsule too. It’s good to form of simply have them there nonetheless.
Tone Madison: You lately launched an ideal, absolutely collaborative single with Fairly Fairly Please. How necessary has the method of creative collaboration been to the event of the band?
Emma O’Shea: We’ve collaborated with those that have performed with us, like in our band. I assume we’ve solely ever written songs only for us. I don’t know if we’ve reached out as a lot to do collaboration issues. Properly, we did a tune. We did a canopy of “Fade Into You” that we’ll be releasing in some unspecified time in the future this fall with Rianna [Marie]. And that was enjoyable to form of do our personal rendition of that. After which Ross [Thorn] reached out along with his fully-written tune for us to sing on.
And Fairly Fairly Please reached out about this tune, and despatched it to us, and we actually favored the sound of it. So we recorded that after we went as much as Minneapolis on 4/20. And certainly one of our good pals, Vinnie [Donatelle], who performs fiddle in The Last Revel, has a aspect undertaking, Friend Dog. We wrote a tune up there with him.
It’s been lots of enjoyable to [do]. I believe we’re undoubtedly extra open to these collaborations. You may’t simply sit down with any individual, simply since you’re good pals with them, and write a tune. There is perhaps two totally different tune types. Nobody needs to collaborate on one thing [feeling like], “Properly, this doesn’t actually give me any emotion in any respect.” However Ross got here in with a brand new tune that can most likely be out on the subsequent factor that we report.
I didn’t perceive that [guest-authoring] was as large of a factor that artists do as I do now. And I believe we have been very reserved in working with different individuals, as a result of I don’t actually [know] learn how to transpose or inform you what key it’s in. Songwriting, I really feel like for each of us… We’re in a position to write nicely collectively, like sitting in a room collectively, however that’s as a result of we’ve been doing this for quite a lot of years, and we’re snug vulnerably making up lyrics, or messing round with issues. And that’s typically not one thing that I’m extraordinarily snug with, with different individuals, if I’m not very shut with them.
Kate Ruland: And even so, we’ll write collectively, however lots of stuff is like, you continue to go your separate manner, and then you definitely come again collectively. The tune that we did with Vinnie and another individuals—Nate [LeBrun] from Pal Canine and Simon Cropp, who’s in Slapdash Bluegrass, and performs with Clare Doyle and stuff like that—that was an fascinating expertise. I’d be down [to] do it once more. However basically, everybody simply got here collectively.
We wrote just a little bit with Vinnie the day earlier than, after which the day that we went in to report, it was extraordinarily spontaneous. Everybody form of simply threw one thing on, and there wasn’t lots of forethought. And the tune did come out actually good. It form of fell by the wayside, as a result of everybody’s fairly busy, and the tune is just about executed. Everybody will simply should resolve when they need it to be launched. That was enjoyable, however we additionally knew everybody, and it was extra of an exercise. It was like, “Yeah, why not?” I’m certain if we sat all the way down to, like, collaboratively write, even simply an EP with somebody, it might show to be far more troublesome.
Emma O’Shea: And it was extra enjoyable [to do that] in a much bigger group of individuals. That wasn’t us and one different individual, proper? As a result of there’s lots of strain to be like, “Right here’s my concept.”
Kate Ruland: If it will get just a little too private, then who is aware of?
Tone Madison: Talking of Ross Thorn, your nationwide tour collectively just lately wrapped. Did that have generate any key takeaways for both of you?
Emma O’Shea: I believe that it confirmed that we’re able to doing it. I used to be very apprehensive at first about, like, simply the logistical aspect of everyone getting alongside. You’re with six individuals for 2 and a half weeks. Everyone acquired alongside fully positive, and there was no rigidity in anyway. And nobody [was] attempting to remain out and occasion. We just about performed the gigs, possibly had a pair drinks, and went again house. I really feel like everyone was on a extremely good wavelength of, like, hitting the highway, being accountable, having snacks within the automobile.
I simply assume logistically, I’m very comfortable about the truth that we have been in a position to not get too lonesome or homesick over the journey, and we have been in a position to do it. I imply, there was a profit to having a good crowd at all the exhibits. There wasn’t an, “Okay, that is the fifth present in a row with two individuals exhibiting up.” I believe I’d really feel much more cautious about it [if that happened]. However then, like, there was a recording studio outdoors of Denver that requested us to return and tour their recording studio. We did a radio present, went and did an open mic.
There [were] various things that we did to additionally not simply be remoted into, “Play present, then go away.” It simply grew to become one thing that’s like, “Okay, this will realistically be an incidence in our life, and it’s not an enormous, extraordinarily taxing factor.” I imply, touring like artists that [do] two or six months of the yr or one thing like that, I simply don’t know, that feels like an excessive amount of. Two and a half weeks is nice, and doing {that a} couple instances all year long sounds nice. All of us form of had a head on our shoulders [when it came to] preserving a stability of every thing and having sustainable vitality for such an extended time frame. However I felt fairly good about it.
Kate Ruland: Yeah. I used to be the [one that] acquired extra homesick and it was solely, like, principally the primary day that we left. I used to be like, “Fuck, I’m a homebody.” I generally overthink issues. And so I used to be beginning to really feel homesick on the primary day. And I’m like, “This isn’t good.” After which it was completely positive after. So, it dug some issues up [but it also contributed to] re-establishing sure objectives, now that this milestone has been crossed—how can we really feel about all of that and persevering with to do it? What does sustainable [practice] seem like for us? Every little thing like that.
So, yeah, it was actually good. Total, we had a ton of enjoyable, and I believe we deliberate it out fairly nicely, if I do say so myself. Gave us a pair free days right here and there, all of us acquired to see pals alongside the highway, and [we were] staying in snug locations, which makes it so much simpler and alleviates lots of stress. So hopefully they’re all like that.
Tone Madison: By way of tour administration, was this a DIY affair?
Emma O’Shea: Yeah, we simply organized all of it with Ross. There [were] lots of people that have been like, “What’s your market out right here?” “I don’t know. We’ve by no means been on the market.” “Then I can’t guide you.” How are we alleged to get a market on the market? We don’t play on the market. And fortunately, we acquired some respectable venues.
The thought with a reserving agent or a supervisor or a promoter is that they’ve connections to have the ability to get you in entrance of individuals you wouldn’t have the ability to get in entrance of your self. But when we have already got the ability set to have the ability to schedule our personal tour, the one cause we’d be asking any individual to assist is that if they’re in a position to.
You will be nearly as good as you will be. And now we’re realizing, you do truly form of want somebody that has connections to get you in entrance of different issues. So, additionally manifesting, [we] would like to play a present with Free Dirt. I believe that they’re sick, and I actually need to play a present with them. We’ve messaged a number of instances as nicely. I believe it simply must be [a calmer time]. So many issues will be up within the air and chaotic. The summer season occurred like that.
Tone Madison: One facet of your output that has been notably placing is the consistency of your visible artwork. Earlier than we began rolling, we have been speaking about postcards and collaging. How necessary do you discover it to keep up a acutely aware visible aesthetic?
Emma O’Shea: Oh, yeah. I imply, in a single facet of it, I believe that’s naturally one thing we’re inclined to—the visible features of visible artwork. [Kate’s] excellent at it. I’m excellent at it. It’s one thing that I believe we’re each very keen about, outdoors of music in any case. And in addition taking a look at [visual art] as extra of a undertaking that isn’t simply [completely centering] me and Kate.
I believe [that’s] a part of the rationale there hasn’t been, actually, any album covers [that are] only a image of me and Kate. That is an output of issues; we’re simply attempting to exemplify some kind of vitality or some kind of environment to accompany the songs. And I believe like incorporating the fervour of visible artwork with the auditory artwork that we make has been very enjoyable to do, and has been a pure factor that we’ve simply executed the entire time.
Kate Ruland: Yeah. We even acquired barely away from the collaging. We used to do month-to-month posters, or it was [nearly] each month. After which, yeah, you have been like, “We must always do one.” I used to be simply considering the identical factor, as a result of we acquired form of deterred by a remark as soon as, of somebody being like, “Bands put up their month-to-month calendars prefer it’s a tour poster,” or one thing. After which we stopped doing that, however now we’re gonna do it once more, and, and it’ll be collaged. I imply, it was. It already got posted on Instagram.
Emma O’Shea: And that’s undoubtedly not one thing to take as a right, that we really feel very snug making all of the artwork for our merch, making all of the artwork for our posters, and all of these sorts of issues. [It’s just] one thing we actually take pleasure in. And [we] don’t should pay somebody to do it. It provides one other factor of tapping into the feelings, as a result of you may form of create one thing that feels [honest]. Like, the “Midwest Winter” poster up there [motions to the poster]. That feels just like the tune. So it’s simply enjoyable to do this.
Kate Ruland: And it’s enjoyable to have a bodily copy of issues. I’m a really tangible individual. I do love objects. And to truly have, like, you could have the “To Emma” poster. There’s, I believe, a pair different ones in there nonetheless too. They’re all laying round someplace. It’s not a printout. It truly is the factor that you simply made, and you may preserve it for eternally, for eternally.
Tone Madison: You’ve been actively navigating Madison’s music panorama for 3 years. Is there something you’ve seen over that point that you simply assume might be improved upon?
Emma O’Shea: There’s a number of totally different unbiased venues, which is good. I believe that, typically talking, it doesn’t appear as cutthroat as different cities, from what different individuals have talked about, the place it’s very gatekeep-y, and the individuals which might be answerable for whether or not you get gigs or not will not be musicians. Whereas, it looks as if—in addition to Live Nation or FPC Live, no matter that’s—there’s lots of people that personal or run the venues are additionally musicians themselves and really considering [building and sustaining] a very good group.
That being mentioned, I really feel like there’s nonetheless so many communities and so many musicians that I don’t know in Madison, as a result of it feels very isolating. We go and play our gigs after which we come right here, and we each nonetheless have our jobs, and we attempt to make time to see our household and pals, and I don’t know… it might be cool if there was extra of a fostering of DIY venues or unbiased venues, like Pink Place is an ideal instance of a venue in Minneapolis that may be a fairly well-known and supported music DIY venue, they usually’ve switched places now.
[Editor’s note: Shortly before this interview took place, Pink Place announced its closure, along with a note indicating that the people responsible for running the venue are looking to “make a real venue one day with the same goals in mind.”]
However I do know Mousetrap acquired shut down due to sound ordinances. We by no means performed there, however it might have been actually fucking cool to play there. It’d be cool to see a solidified DIY place possibly not run by school children, although I believe Madison Manor was actually cool, and there are cool locations which might be run by school college students. However, yeah, I don’t know. It’s fascinating, as a result of it seems like there’s a very good group round right here, after which on the similar time, it feels very a lot barren, the place I simply don’t see a lot of this DIY scene that I see elsewhere.
Perhaps that’s as a result of it’s fairly depending on the school inhabitants, however I don’t know. In Eau Claire, for instance, there are lots of home present venues. Run by musicians or a collective of individuals, they usually have good lineups, they usually actually take the time to advertise issues and foster this collaborative group facet. And I believe it might be cool if that have been one thing that might be extra occurring in Madison.
Kate Ruland: Yeah, that’s a tricky one. Somebody who’s keen. Prepared and ready, and has a home and stuff.
Emma O’Shea: And we have to have extra queer line dancing happening! Queer line dancing. The place’s at it? What the fuck?
Tone Madison: Having that DIY infrastructure run by way of a non-collegiate area does appear to be one thing that’s largely either been missing in Madison or had a short lifespan. There are a number of exceptions, nevertheless it’s not as strong because it as soon as was, or presently is elsewhere. It wasn’t that far again that Milwaukee had a thriving DIY punk venue community.
Emma O’Shea: Yeah. And it looks as if the punk scene in Milwaukee is a fairly solidified group of individuals. Like, that may be a style of music that does exist within the DIY areas there. Right here, I’m undecided what the style can be. It appeared like Mousetrap was fairly punk, however Madison Manor did lots of totally different genres. I don’t truthfully know.
[When it comes to the demands] of time and curation that goes into making a DIY area, who’s taking that upon themselves to create, and who has the area to have the ability to do this? However I believe it might exist, and it’d be cool. My favourite place to play at proper now could be Lakeside Street [Coffee House].
Kate Ruland: Most weekends [Lakeside Street will] have something going on, [and] I agree. It’s my favourite place [to play].
Tone Madison: Is there something we’ve already touched on that you simply’d wish to increase, or one thing that we haven’t mentioned that you simply’d like our readers to know?
Emma O’Shea: We’re round Madison. Come hang around. We need to meet different musicians. We like being part of the group. And go to open mics, okay?
